Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1 Direct examination by Mr. Grinnell. Cross-examination by Mr. Foster. Testified on behalf of the Prosecution, People of the State of Illinois. Testified as to Harry Gilmer's general reputation for truth and veracity. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): Gilmer, Harry (vol.N 190).
Testimony of Michael Smith, 1886 Aug. 10.
Volume N, 190-196, 7 p.
Smith, Michael.
Butcher.
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[Image, Volume N, Page 190]
MICHAEL SMITH,
a witness called and sworn on behalf of the People was examined in chief by Mr. Grinnell and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name?
A. Michael Smith.
Q. Where do you live?
A. 626 Twenty-seventh Street.
Q. What is your business?
A. Butcher.
Q. Where?
A. At Armour's.
Q. Where were you working before that?
A. Tobey & Booth.
Q. How long have you lived in Chicago?
A. Twenty-four years.
Q. What is the position that you are not working in?
A. Workman.
Q. Do you know Harry L. Gilmer?
A. I know a great many gilmers -- I don't know which one it is.
Q. A tall slim man?
A. A tall slim man, I do.
Q. How long have you known him?
A. Known him since 1879.
Q. Do you know his reputation for truth and veracity in the city of Chicago among his associates?
A. I do.
Q. Is it good or bad?
A. I consider it good.
Q. Would you believe him under oath?
A. I would.
CROSS EXAMINATION
By Mr. Foster.
Q. Do you know his wife on Halsted Street?
A. I do not.
Objected to.
MR. GRINNELL: He hasn't any wife on Halsted Street. The
woman that you people have shadowed there is willing to come here.
MR. BLACK: That is an infamous suggestion. It is improper for him to make a charge of that kind, and it is absolutely false.
MR. GRINNELL: I didn't say you had been there.
MR. FOSTER: Q. How near did you ever live to where Mr. Gilmer lived?
A. I never lived near at all.
Q. Where do you live?
A. I live at 626 Twenty-seventh Street.
Q. How long have you lived there?
A. I have lived there one year, over one year.
Q. Where did you live before that?
A. Corner of and Twenty-sixth Street.
Q. How long did you live there?
A. I lived there seven years.
Q. During that seven years and during the one year, did you ever live near to where Mr. Gilmer lived?
A. I did not.
Q. Where did he live at that time?
A. That is more than I can tell. He lives on the west side, somewheres, I could not tell.
Q. Did'nt you ever know where Gilmer lived?
A. No sir.
Q. You never visited him?
A. No sir.
Q. Did he ever work for you?
A. He did.
Q. What was he doing?
A. He worked in the packing house
of Tobey & Booth when I was foreman there.
Q. What was he doing?
A. He was working on the packing floor.
Q. Where were you working?
A. I was foreman there.
Q. You were on all floors?
A. No sir, only on the packing and smoking department.
Q. Was it in your department?
A. Yes.
Q. How long did he work there?
A. About three months.
Q. When was that?
A In 1882, in the winter of 1882.
Q. Since then do you know where he worked?
A. No sir.
Q. Have you a family?
A. I have.
Q. Did you ever entertain Mr. Gilmer at your house?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When?
A. That was on my wife's birthday. The factory boys they came and gave my wife a surprise party and Mr. Gilmer was there, and conducted himself very respectably.
Q. He was respectable?
A. Yes sir.
Q. He can be respectable in a crowd? Did you invite the boys, or did they just come up there?
A. They came up on a surprise.
Q. Then you didn't know they were coming?
A. I knew they were coming but my wife didn't.
Q. You did not know which ones were coming?
A. I knew they all were coming.
Q. The whole party coming?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You invited the party to come?
A. I did not.
Q. Who did invite them?
A. That is more than I know.
Q. You didn't invite Mr. Gilmer to come to your house?
A. I did not. I did not invite any one.
Q. You didn't invite anybody -- he came along with the crowd?
A. Certainly.
Q. There in the crowd he behaved himself like a gentleman?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you ever hear anybody say that his reputation for truth was good?
A. I heard every body that I know of at the office say that Mr. Gilmer's reputation was A No. 1.
Q. It was A No. 1.
A. Yes sir.
Q. That was in 1882?
A. Yes sir.
Q. At the packing house?
A. And ever since.
Q. You have read the newspapers, I suppose, about this case?
A. Well, I think when a man works a day and a quarter sometimes in a day, he don't feel much like reading newspapers in the evening.
Q. Works a day and a quarter in one day?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You heard them all that you know say that Mr. Gilmer's reputation was A No. 1?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Everybody said that?
A. All that I know.
Q. Everybody that you know that knows Gilmer?
A. No,
sir, I know a good many people in the United States.
Q. Everybody that knew Gilmer said that it was A No. 1?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you ever hear of his being in the Cook County Jail?
A. I did not.
Q. Never heard of his being arrested in Cedar Rapids?
A. NO sir.
Q. You never heard of his living with a woman named Holt?
A. No sir.
Q. Anything of that kind?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you know how many places he lived in through the city here?
A. I couldn't tell.
Q. Do you know what he was at last winter?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you know where he was staying last summer?
A. I do not.
Q. Do you know anything about his watching a boat winter before last?
A. No sir.
Q. You don't know about his living three weeks in one place and six weeks in another?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you know anything about Bonfield getting dinner for him while he was around the court room.?
Objected to.
A. No sir.
Q. This fact you knew while he was working for the packing house there in 1882?
A. No sir, I know him since 1879.
Q. Where was he living then?
A. I don't know where he was living in 1879. He joined the militia in Battery D.
Q. You met him at Battery D?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Are you a member now?
A. I am an honorary member. I was porter master sergeant -- my time was out.
Q. Is Gilmer a member of Battery D now?
A. I don't think he is, I think his time is out or was out.
Q. How long is the time?
A. Five years, I think he was enlisted.
Q. Do you remember Gilmer.
Q. Do you remember whether Gilmer was a member of Battery D for five years?
A. I don't know as he was that long. I couldn't tell how long he was a member, but I know he enlisted in 1879.
Q. You don't know that he was expelled from Battery D?
Objected to.
Q. Did you ever hear he was expelled from Battery D for immoral conduct?
A. I did not.
Q. You never heard whether he was or not?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you read the Tribune sometimes?
A. Not very often some times I do.
Q. Did you ever read in the Tribune that he was expelled from the Patriotic Sons of America for trying to seduce a young girl?
Objected to.
A. No sir.
Q. You never visited him at his home?
A. No sir.
Q. Never knew whether he had one or not?
A. No sir.
Q. You never knew who his associates were when he was at home?
A. I did not.
Q. Never talked with any one that lived with him or associated with him from day to day?
A. No sir.
Q. You don't know what they say in regard to his reputation as to truth and veracity?
A. No sir.
MR. FOSTER: That is all.