Haymarket Affair Digital Collection

Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1
Testimony of Henry Schultz, 1886 Aug. 7.

Volume M, 383-401, 19 p.
Schultz, Henry.
Former miner.

Direct examination by Captain Black. Cross-examination by Mr. Grinnell. Testified on behalf of the Defense, Spies, August et al.

A tourist from Portage, Wisconsin, Schultz attended the Haymarket meeting. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): learned about the Haymarket meeting by chancing to walk past (vol.M 385), street lights and/or lights on the wagon (vol.M 388), actions of police during the Haymarket meeting (vol.M 388), movement, position or tenor of the crowd (vol.M 387), Spies' speech at Haymarket (vol.M 399), Parsons' speech at Haymarket (vol.M 387).

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a witness called and sworn on behalf of the defendants was examined in chief by Mr. Black, and testified as follows:

Q- What is your name?

A- Henry Schultz.

Q- Where do you reside?

A- Portage city, Wisconsin.

Q- How long have you been in this city, this country?

A- Thirty six years.

Q- You are a naturalized citizen are you?

A- Yes.

Q- Are you an owner of property?

A- In Wisconsin.

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Q- What property do you own there, generally--- I don't care for you to give details, but generally.

A- A House and lot.

Q- Are you a socialist?

A- No sir.

Q- An Anarchist?

A- No sir.

Q- A Communist?

A- No.

Q- Do you belong to any group?, or organization of socialists, anarchists, communists, armed or unarmed?

A- No sir.

Q- Where were you on the night of the 4th. of last May 1886?

A- From nine o'clovk until the fight was over I was on the Haymarket.

Q- How long had you been in Chicago at that time?

A- Two weeks.

Q- What brought you here?

A- I am a tourist.

Q- You were travelling simply at that time?

A- Yes.

Q- You had been in Chicago about two weeks, -- where had you been stopping when you were here during that two weeks?

A- On Lake Street?

Q- Do you remember the place, what place was it?

A- 137.

Q- You had been there during the entire two weeks, had you?

A- yes sir.

Q- How did you happen to go to the so called Haymarket meeting?

A- It was on my way home.

Q- At what hour in the evening did you go there?

A- Nine o'clock.

Q- You saw the crowd did you on the street?

A- Yes sir.

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Q - And went there?

Objected to as leading.

Q- Had you seen any notice of the meeting?

A- Nothing.

Q- Any hand bill or poster?

A- Nothing.

Q- Had you read it in the papers or saw it in the papers?

A- No sir.

Q- Had anybody spoken of it to you in advance?

A- No sir.

Q- Where had you been that evening? from whcih place you were returning home?

A- From the coffee house on Randolph Street.

Q- How near to the meeting were you passing as you went home? I will ask you whether or not you were accustomed to go through Desplaines street?

A- I was accustomed to go through there.

MR. GRINNELL: That don't matter--- what did he do that night?

MR. BLACK: Q- That night were you going through Desplaines to get home, when you discovered the meeting?

Objected to.

MR. BLACk: He said he was on his way home from the coffee house on Randolph street, and he lived at 137 West Lake street, and that he saw this meeting and went there.

MR. GRINNELL: What is the use of that any more?

MR. BLACK: Just for fun.

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THE WITNESS: That is right.

Q- How long were you at the meeting if you remember, Mr. Schultz?

A- From nine until it was over.

Q- Did you know at that time any of the defendants who are here on trial?

A- No sir.

Q- Have you ever had any personal acquaintance with any of them?

A- No sir.

Q- Who was speaking when you reached the meeting, if you remember?

A- I can't tell.

Q- Where did you stand when you were in the meeting or about where?

A- The middle in the street.

Q- In what direction from the wagon?

A- A little north.

Q- A little north and in the middle of the street?-- a little then northwest from the wagon was it?

A- Yes.

Q- Can you look at the defendants that sit here and tell which of them you saw that evening?

A- I can not.

Q- How many men spoke after you got there?

A- I only saw two, I think. I think they changed about ten o'clock.

Q- ONe man then was speaking when you got there and spoke until about ten, and then another man spoke-- is that right?

A- Only changed once?, as I say.

Q- Only changed once while you were there? Now, have you been in the habit of attending street meetings, Mr. Schultz?

A- No, me being here seeing sights, I would stop at any thing.

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Q- What was the nature of that meeting and of the audience--- did you see any disturbance or trouble there before the police came up?

A- It was as far as I know peaceable, and like the 4th. of July.

Q- Do you remember particularly anything that was said by the first speaker that you heard?

A- Yes. I know a little run of it, what I kept in my mind.

Q- Give us the run of it as nearly as you can remember, of the first speaker now.

A- He said, "I did'nt want to come here when they called me a coward, I did'nt like to be a coward, that is the reason I come". A few words after that I can't recollect; but he run on, "They are only five hundred yards from here-- may be by tomorrow morning I will have to die". I kept that on my mind--- that is what I heard him say.

Q- Did you hear that speaker say anything in the course of his remarks about Jay Gould?

A- Yes sir.

Q- What did he say about Jay Gould that you remember?

A- He wanted the people not to kill, but the working men should get their rights in civil ways.

Q- Now, do you remember anything that was said by the last speaker that spoke, if you don't remember particularly?

A- (No response)

Q- I will ask you another question. Were you still standing there when the police came up?

A- I left when the black

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cloud came up.

Q- You were not there then when the bomb exploded?

A- I was on Lake street.

Q- So that you did not see the police when they came up?

A- No sir.

Q- After the bomb exploded did you go back to Desplaines street, and to the neighborhood of the meeting?

A- I looked around the corner.

Q- What did you see?

A- I see everything dark, and I thought the bomb must have blowed out the lights.

Q- What else?

A- I see that policemen win the battle, they were boss all around.

Q- They had the ground?

A- They had the ground.

Q- What else did you see there if anything?

A- I saw all the working men run--- they were about two blocks ahead of the police.

Q- Did you see the police come upon any of the workingmen at any time?

A- They came twenty men strong, in Lake street and one says, "There is one

MR. GRINNELL; That was after.

MR. BLACK-- Yes just afterwards.

THE WITNESS: And they had two men in the gutter striking them, and when they raised up they got another club.

Q- The police had these men down?

A- The police.

Q- What did these men that were in the gutter do?

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Objected to.

THE COURT: Q- That was on Lake street?

A- On lake street.

MR. BLACK-- Q- How long was that after the bomb exploded?

A- Four or five minutes.

Q- That is substantially all that you remember of the occurrences of that night?

A- When you ask me about the second speaker, when that cloud came up the people all wanted to adjourn and the women and children pretty much all left. Then there was'nt many left any more of the audience and the speaker said "I only have a few words to say. We don't need to go to the hall--- I get through here in a few minutes--- that is all".


Q- You live at Portage city?

A- Yes sir.

Q- What is your business there?

A- Doing nothing.

Q- How long have you been conducting that business?-- how long have you been doing nothing?

A- About ten years.

Q- What business had you been engaged in prior to, that ten years?

A- Mining in Montana Territory.

Q- How long have you lived at Portage city?

A- It has been my home thirty-six years.

Q- Where is your house that you live in?

A- Next house to the court house.

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Q- On which street fronting that square?

A- DeWitt.

Q- Is it the main street to the depot from Protage city?

A- Yes sir, about the main.

Q- Do you know where Mr. Christopher lives there?

A- Yes, he lives on the same street.

Q- How far is your house from Christophers House?

A- Two blocks.

Q- Towards the depot or towards the city?

A- Towards the city.

Q- You have lived there some thirty-six years, have you.

A- Yes.

Q- Prior to, ten years ago you were in some mining business in Wyoming territory?

A- Montana.

Q- How long were you in the mining business?

A- Ten years.

Q- That would make twenty years then?


Q- The last twenty years you have been either mining or doing nothing--- before that had you any trade or business?

A- Music was my business.

Q- Did you keep a music store?

A- No sir, playing for audiences.

Q- What instrument did you play?

A- Violin.

Q- How long have you been a musician?

A- From the time I was nine years old. My father was a musician, and it was in the family.

Q- Now, you were in Chicago before the 4th. of May, how

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many weeks?

A- Two weeks.

Q- What are you doing here, doing nothing, or simply here for pleasure and recreation--- how is that are you here for pleasure and recreation?

A- Yes sir.

Q- That is all you were here for?

A- That is all.

Q- Were you boarding at 137 West Lake Street all the time?

A- I am there now again.

Q-, Were you there all the time?

A- Not all the time. I was since a week after, a few days after the 4th. of May-- I was about one month away from here, and I am here again?

Q- Came back again?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Does your family travel with you or are you alone?

A- I am alone.

Q- Then you were here about three weeks, just about the 4th. of May-- is that right?

A- That is right.

Q- Two weeks before and about a week after?

A- Yes sir.

Q- What is the name of the place you room at or board at?

A- It is a grocery store.

Q- What is the name of the man that keeps it?

A- All the name I know is August.

Q- Is it a place where you can get board?

A- No, my room is only what they call a furnished room. I get my meals in restaurants.

Q- Does the man who rents the furnished room to you, does he keep the store underneath?

A- No sir, that is a private

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Q- Give me the name of the private family?

A- Mr. Wistenhausen.

Q- How long have you been there this last time?

A- Four weeks.

Q- Have you done anything in your music business since you have been in Chicago, this time?

A- No, my money reaches without doing anything.

Q- You get along without any work?

A- Yes sir.

Q- You don't do anything in the violin busines at present? and did not about the 4th of May?

A- No sir.

Q- Where were you that evening, you say a coffee houses on Randolph street--- whereabouts was that you were at a coffee houses on Randolph street?

A- 166.

Q- East or West Randolph?

A- West Randolph.

Q- Did you take your meals at 166 West Randolph?

A- Most of the time.

Q- You took your supper there that night did you?

A- Either coffee or supper?

Q- Now that night where had you been before you came to haymarket square, before you came to the corner of Lake--- you say you got there at the corner of Lake and Desplaines about nine o'clock--where had you been?

A- No where else.

Q- You went from the coffee house?

A- From the coffee house, going home.

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Q- That was on Randolph street?

A- Yes sir.

Q- 166 West Randolph Street?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Which way did you start when you started from 166 West Randolph street, whcih way did you go?

A- It is just as near to my home.

Q- Never mind. Tell me which way you went?

A- Right straight from my home.

Q- Right straight from where?

A- From 166 Randolph.

Q- To 137 West Lake?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Near what cross street is 166 West Randolph Street-- near what street is it that runs north and south across Randolph--- this coffee house is near what corner?

A- It is near union.

Q- Is it east or west of Union?

A- It is west.

Q- How far west of Union--- is it nearer Union than it is Halsted?

A- It is about half way from Halsted to Union.

Q- On what side of the street is it on, of Randolph?

A- It is on the south side.

Q- Then when you came out of the coffee house at 166 West Randolph street you came out facing north, that building faces the north does it?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Which way did you turn to the east or to the West?

A- I turned east.

Q- How far did you go east on Randolph street?

A- Up to Desplaines.

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Q- Crossed Union Street and went to Desplaines street?

A- That is right, yes.

Q- When you got to the corner of Desplaines and Randolph it was nine o'clock, was it?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Then which way did you turn?

A- Then I see the meeting.

Q- I did not ask you about the meeting--- which way did you turn?

A- I walked along on Desplaines.

Q- North or south?

A- North.

Q- Did you stop?

A- Stopped at the meeting.

Q- Where did you walk, on which side walk did you walk?

A- In the east side.

Q- Or west side of the street?

A- On the west side.

Q- On the sidewalk?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Then you walked upon the west side of Desplaines street and you walked north, did you?

A- Yes sir.

Q- And you stopped where?

A- Opposite the speakers.

Q- On the sidewalk or in the street?

A- I walked the middle of the street.

Q- You wlaked in the middle of the street did you?

A- Yes.

Q- How did you get through the crowd?

A- The crowd was not so big--a man could walk through any place.

Q- Nine o'clock?

A- Nine o'clock, yes sir.

Q- How many people were there there, do you think?

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A- Five hundred on the sidewalk.

Q- How many between the side walks in the street?

A- About two hundred in a group towards the police station, and about one hundred in a group towards the north.

Q- Towards what?

A- In front of the speaker there was nobody.

Q- Nobody around the speaker-- nobody around the wagon then?

a- Just about a hundred a round the wagon and right in front of them, and there was nobody---

Q- One hundred around the wagon?

A- Yes sir.

Q- And Then there was a space where there was nobody?

A- Nobody, no sir.

Q- Two or three hundred beyond that towards the police station?

A- Towards the police station, yes sir.

Q- About how much space was there that nobody was in?

A- There was space enough for another two, or three hundred there.

Q- There was another two or three hundred below that--- the space was'nt all filled up?

A- No.

Q- Was it crowded anywhere that you tried to walk through?

A- No, it was not crowded.

Q- You stood there how long, about how long did you say it was you stood there and heard that speaker?

A- From nine o'clock until the black cloud come.

Q- Who was speaking?

A- I don't know.

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Q- Did you read any account of the matter the next day?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Did'nt you read an account of somebody speaking--- did'nt you get his name the next day?

A- I would not know who was speaking any way, if I read the papers.

Q- I asked you if you knew his name?

A- I heard his name.

Q- What was his name did you hear?

A- Spies and Fielden.

Q- Ain't you mistaken about that?

A- Yes, I can be mistaken.

Q- Did you hear Spies and Fielden speak?

A- No, I can't say.

Q- The first one you heard speak-- you read the whole account the next day, the papers were full of it?

A- Yes, every day I read, yes.

Q- You were here a week?

A- Yes sir.

Q- You read accounts of them and when you read it in the newspapers you remembered what you heard the night before?

A- Yes sir.

Q- When you saw the account of what you heard the night before you saw the men's names who said it?

A- I saw the man's name, but still could not make up, my mind.

Q- I ain't asking you to recognize him--- you were standing back of him and you could not see his face?

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MR. BLACK:- You interrupted him. He was saying that he could not make up his mind.

MR. GRINNELL: Q- You did not see their faces?

A- I saw their faces when they spoke.

Q- Do you think you could recognize them if you saw them again?

A- No.

Q- How long did you stand there looking at them?

A- An hour.

Q- The lights were all lighted then were not they, the lamps around the street all lighted so it was all light up there by the lamps?

A- I thought there was--- I did'nt see nothing uncommon I think it was lighted up about as well as any meeting.

Q- Was there a light on the wagon--- you attended public meetings in the night and saw a good many of them in the street?

A- Lots of them.

Q- There was a great big light on the wagon that the speakers stood next to?

A- I can't remember.

Q- You don't remember?

A- No sir.

Q- Do you remember about lamp posts around there, how many of them were lighted? --- how many lamp posts were there there?

A- There was nothing about lights uncommon.

Q- Was there anything common about the lights?

A- No.

Q- Was there any lights at all?

A- There was lights there, as always.

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Q- I don't know that they are always lighted there.

A- I passed there.

Q- Nights?

A- Yes.

Q- You passed there the same way nights?

A-, Yes sir.

Q- You lived at 137 West Lake?

A- Yes.

Q- The first speaker you found from reading the newspaper, the first speaker you heard was Spies, as you call him--- is that right

A- No, I can't promise anything.

Q- Was it Fielden?

A- No sir, I couldn't say.

Q- Are those the only two names you remember after reading the accounts in the newspapers for days afterwards there?

A- That is about all I hear.

Q- What was it the first speaker you heard said-- what was it you heard him say?

A- I hear--- shall I state it over again?

Q- Yes, let us have it all over again. State it clearly and distinctly so the jury will understand it.

A- "When I heard about the meeting, I was called a coward, so I did not like to be called one, a coward--- so I come here to speak".

Q- That is what the speaker said?

A- Yes, the speaker said.

Q- Did'nt he say something about McCormick's--- do you remember him saying anything about McCormick's--- that men were shot down there the day before, and that somebody accused him of causing it, and said it was a lie--- do you remember that?

A- That was the man.

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Q- That was the man?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Now, what did that same man say about the police station being so many feet away?

A- He says they was only five hundred yards from here and he was likely to die until morning, before morning.

Q- Was that all he said?

A- That was about all in that run of speech.

Q- How long did he talk?

A- About half an hour.

Q- How long did the other fellow talk that followed him?

A- About half an hour.

Q- Did'nt you hear some speaker say something about "To arms, to arms"?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Which speaker was that the first or last one?

A- I think it was the first I heard.

Q- You might be mistaken about that?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Now, did you hear the last speaker say anything about the police

A- No sir.

Q- Did you hear all that he did say up to the time that the bomb was exploded?

A- Five minutes before.

Q- You left five minutes before the bomb exploded, did you?

Q- About two or three minutes, from three minutes to five, about.

Q- You left because the cloud came up?

A- The cloud came up.

Q- It looked as if was going to rain?

A- It come too

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cold, felt just like rain.

Q- The wind changed around into the northeast suddenly?

A- Yes sir, it was almost like a warning to men to get away.

Q- You got away?

A- I got away, yes sir.

Q- Turned around and went away?

A- Yes.

Q- The crowd all left with you did'nt they?

A- I think about pretty near half of them.

Q- Where did you go then?

A- To Lake street.

Q- Then where?

A- To wash my feet.

Q- You went to what place? --- I did'nt you ask what you went to do?

A- It was mud, and I washed my feet in some of that water they have for horse and got about here, I heard the bomb.

Q- Where?

A- On Desplaines.

Q- Where were you washing your feet on Desplaines or on Lake?

A- On Desplaines.

Q- How far from Lake?

A- 50 feet.

Q- 50 feet south or north of Lake street?

A- South.

Q- There is where you were when the bomb went off?

A- Yes.

Q- Had you your boots off then?

A- No sir, I was only washing off the mud off of my boots, rubber shoes.

Q- You were washing your shoes and not your feet?

A- My shoes, yes sir.

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Q- Where had you been to get muddy?

A- Walking around town.

Q- You walked in the streets a good deal, around town?

A- Yes sir, every day, even now.

Q- The bomb exploded while you were there washing the mud off your shoes?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Then you looked up to see what caused it did you?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Did you stand still or did you run?

A- I walked towards the meeting again.

Q- Now, when did you leave and come back into Lake street-- when did you get to your place, 137 West Lake street?

A- About five minutes after the bomb.

Q- Now 137 Wset Lake street is which side of Desplaines?

A- It is on the southside.

Q- Which way from Desplaines is 137 West Lake--- is it east or west?

A- It is west.

Q- How far?

A- Only 100 feet.

Q- Are you a tourist this time--- do you come back for your pleasure?

A- Yes sir.

Q- Does your family live at Portage city?

A- I have no family.

Q- How much time of the year, how much time during the year do you spend at Portage City--- how many months of the whole twelve do you spend at Portage City?

A- Oh, half the time of the year.

Recess to 2 o'clock P.M.

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