Haymarket Affair Digital Collection

Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1.
Testimony of Lucius M. Moses, 1886 Aug. 3.

Volume L, 267-273, 7 p.
Moses, Lucius M.

Direct examination by Mr. Salomon. Cross-examination by Mr. Walker. Testified on behalf of the Defense, Spies, August et al.

Testified as to Gilmer's general reputation for truth and veracity. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): Gilmer, Harry (vol.L 267).

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a witness called and sworn on behalf of the defendants, was examined in chief by Mr. Salomon, and testified as follows:

Q What is your name?

A Lucius M. Moses.

Q Where do you reside?

A 301 West Randolph street.

Q How long have you lived in the city of Chicago?

A About six and a half years.

Q How long have you resided where you now live?

A Five years last May.

Q What is your business?

A Grocer.

Q How old are you?

A Sixty-four years old.

Q Are you acquainted with a man called Harry Gilmer?

A Yes I know a man called Gilmer, and I presume that it is the man.

Q A tall slim man?

A Yes sir.

Q He has been a witness in this case?

A I understand so, yes sir.

Q How long have you known him?

A I have known him, oh, from some time last year perhaps, it has been---I don't know. It may be six, eight, nine or ten months, along there, he came into the neighborhood.

Q Do you know his general reputation for truth and veractiy in the neighborhood in which he resides?

THE COURT: The answer to that qu stion is simply that you know it or don't know it.

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THE WITNESS: I do know it, yes sir.

MR. SALOMON: Q Is that reputation good or bad?

A It is rather bad.

Q Is it very bad?

A I should think so, yes sir--- I should judge so.

Q Would you believe him under oath?

A I should not want to.


Q You reside at 301 Randolph street?

A Yes sir.

Q How long have you known Mr. Salomon, the gentleman that addressed you here?

A I have known Mr. Salomon some two or three years, more or less, a speaking acquaintance.

Q Do you know how Mr. Salomon became aware of the fact that you knew Mr. Gilmer?

A I presume I do.

Q How?

A Mr. Serene was in the store one evening after this testimony was given, and we were reading it over.

Q Do you know yourself?

MR. FOSTER: Let him answer the question.

MR. WALKER: Q Do you know yourself?

THE COURT: If he heard any communication through Salomon, that he may tell.

MR. FOSTER: How far has the answer proceeded? How does Mr. Walker know that at the time they were reading it over Mr. Salomon did not come in there and have a conversation.

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THE COURT: He should begin with Salomon.

MR. WALKER: Q Was Salomon there?

A No sir.

Q Serene is a lawyer is not he?

A He is.

Q Is not he the lawyer that was confined in Michigan Penitentiary?

Objected to.

THE COURT: That cuts no figure.

MR. WALKER: Q It was Serene the lawyer, wasn(t it?

A Yes sir.

Q And Salomon wasn't there?

A No sir.

Q You have known Salomon for three years?

A About three years.

Q How long have you known Serene?

A About the same time I think.

Q Did you make the acquaintance of both gentlemen at the same time?

A Mr. Serene lived there in that neighborhood and is now living out west, and Mr. Salomon, I became acquainted with him here in the court room, when I was here on a jury, just merely made a passing acquaintance---that is all.

Q How long have you known Mr. Gilmer?

A Well, as I say since the middle of last year he came in the neighborhood. I can't keep run of those people constantly going and coming. He came there last summer sometime, and I think left in the fall, three or four months.

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Q How long did you know him?

A Knew him while he was there.

Q In the same building with you?

A In the same building.

Q Did he get goods of you?

A Occasionally he did.

Q Did he owe you a dollar?

A No sir, I wouldn't trust him.

Q Did he try to get trust from you?

A I think he did once.

Q Is that why you don't believe him under oath?

A No sir.

Q Was Serene there?

A No sir.

Q Was it Serene that asked you about this man Gilmer?

A No sir, we talked about him.

Q When did Mr. Salomon see you about it?

A Salomon came in and saw me the next day---I think it was after Mr. Serene was there.

Q After you had seen Serene?

A Yes sir.

Q You knew Mr. Gilmer then in all four months.?

A Yes sir.

Q Did you associate among the same poeple with him or associate socially?

A No sir, not a great deal.

Q Were you anywhere with him socially?

A No sir.

Q Have you ever met him socially?

A No sir.

Q Did you know the people with whom he associated in a

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social way?

A No more than from roomers, people that roomed with him, traded with us, used to tell us about him--- they rented rooms of him.

Q Of Gilmer?

A Of Gilmer.

Q It was from the people that rented of Gilmer from whom you get your information?

A The most of it.

Q Did you know anything about his associates?

A Only what I heard.

Q Did you know he was a member of Battery D, at that time, and associated with the Battery men?

A No sir.

Q Major Toby, did you know him?

A No sir.

Q Do you know Mr. Tuthill?, the United States District Attorney?

A I do not.

Q Do you know Harry Gilmer's associates at all of your own knowledge?

A Nothing more than what I have stated, just merely what I have heard--that is all.

Q Who are these individuals who said they would not believe Gilmer under oath---give us their names?

A There is Mrs Lee that lives in the same building, that had lived there a year or two.

Q Lived in the same building with you?

A Yes sir, and a man by the name of Mitchell that lives there.

Q Where does Mr. Mitchell live?

A He rooms in the same building.

Q With you?

A In the same building with him. There

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is some five tenements in the building.

Q Was there anybody outside of that building that ever discussed the character and general reputation of Gilmer in your presence, outside of your own locality?

A Yes sir, I heard it on Van Buren Street, Monday morning.

Q Who is the person on Van Buren Street?

A I can't give you the name. He is a Pinkerton man at 205 Van Buren street I think---I could not tell his name.

Q There is where he lives?

A That is where he lives.

Q He is a Pinkerton man?

A Yes sir.

Q Anybody else outside of the precincts of 301 West Randolph street, except this Pinkerton man?

A I think not.

Q Then all the other people that have discussed this man's character and reputation, come from the same building with yourself?

A Yes sir.

Q When was the discussion that you had with these people at 301 West Randolph?

A These parties that gave me this information?

Q No, when did you discuss Gilmer?

A I don't know as I understand who you mean.

Q When did you have a talk with Mrs. Lee and the people at 301 West Randolph street?

A Quite recently, within a few days.

Q Since Gilmer testified?

A Yes sir.

Q And that is when the people at 301 West Randolph street

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would not believe him under oath?

A Yes sir. It was brought up before that.

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