Haymarket Affair Digital Collection

Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1.
Testimony of Timothy McKeough (second appearance), 1886 July 27.

Volume K, 187-212, 26 p.
McKeough, Timothy.
Detective, Chicago Police Department.

Direct examination by Mr. Grinnell. Cross-examination by Captain Black. Testified on behalf of the Prosecution, People of the State of Illinois.

Attended the Haymarket meeting. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): socialists and/or socialism (vol.K 192), plans for warfare against the police and/or capitalists (vol.K 193), call for workingmen to arm themselves (vol.K 192), McCormick Reaper Works strike, meeting or riot (vol.K 189), movement, position or tenor of the crowd (vol.K 190), police knowledge of anarchist activities (vol.K 192), Spies, August (vol.K 188), Spies' speech at Haymarket (vol.K 188), Parsons, Albert (vol.K 191), Parsons' speech at Haymarket (vol.K 191), Schwab, Michael (vol.K 193), Fielden, Samuel (vol.K 193), Fielden's speech at Haymarket (vol.K 193), Schnaubelt, Rudolph (vol.K 193).

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a witness recalled on behalf of the people was examined by Mr. Grinnell and testified as follows:

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Q You are a police officer?

A. Yes sir.

Q Belong to the detective force?

A. Yes sir.

Q You were detailed at the hay-market square, haymarket meeting on May 4th?

A. Yes sir.

Q What time did you get there?

A. I left the central station about six o'clock, in that neighborhood, and went right over to Desplaines Street, and reported to Inspector Bonfield, and got my orders from him.

Q Were you out into the street then?

A. I walked out on the street, and walked up and down with the crowd. There was a crowd coming and going all the time, walked around and did not seem to have any certain place to stop. I stayed there until about in the neighborhood of eight o'clock.

Q Where did you go?

A. I was in the crowd all the time walking around.

Q Where did you go---did you go up as far as Halstead Street?

A. Very near, as far as between Halstead and Desplaines up on both sides of Randolph Street.

Q The meeting finally opened in you presence---did you see it open?

A. Yes sir.

Q Who did that?

A. Mr. Spies.

Q Where were you then?

A. I just come from Randolph Street, and as I got there, Mr. Spies got on the wagon, and says: "Is Mr. Parsons here?" He called out twice "Is Mr.

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Parsons here?" He did not get any answer, and he talked with somebody in front of him, I don't know who he was. He said "Never mind, I will go and find him myself." and just then some one said "Let us pull a wagon around on Randolph Street, and hold the meeting there". Mr. Spies said "No, that might stop the street cars". He started away then, and Officer Myers and myself followed him as far as the corner. There was a man with him who I think was Schwab. I was not very sure, because I did not pay much particular attention to anybody but Spies at that time; and in about five minutes he returned, and when I got back he was addressing the meeting; and he was talking about what happwned to their brethern the day before at McCormick's--- about being shot down. He said he had been down to McCormick's, and addressed a meeting, and that they wanted to stop him; that they tried to pull him off the car because he was a socialist; that while he was talking a portion of the crowd started towards McCormick's, and commenced to throw stones, the most harmless amusement they could have. Then he went on to show how the wagons loaded with police came down the black road, as he called it, and commenced firing into the crowd. Somebody halloed out just then "Let us hang them" (Meaning the police officers as I suppose). And he says "My friends", turning around--- the man that hallooed that out was a little bit towards the

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south of the wagon, and about ten feet out in the street. He says "When you get ready to do anything, go and do it, and say nothing about it." Just in about that neighborhood of time Mr. Parsons I guess arrived, and Mr. Spies concluded his speech by saying Parsons had arrived, and he could talk better English than him, and would entertain them probably better than he could, and he gave way to Mr. Parsons.

Q Were you there all the time after you got back and found Spies speaking. Did you stay by until Spies finished?

A Yes sir, until he introduced Mr. Parsons.

Q Did you report back at the station any time then?

A Not during Mr. Spies' speech.

MR. ZEISLER: We do not think it is material or relevent what any of these detectives reported to headquarters.

MR. GRINNELL: We are not asking what they reported. Only the fact.

MR. ZEISLER: It is not material; it is not relovant.

MR. GRINNELL: Q. Where did you go then---did you stay there

A I stayed right in front of the wagon.

Q Who was the next speaker?

A. Mr. Parsons.

Q What did Parsons say?

A. He opened up his address by saying---

Q Let me ask you, what was the temper of that crowd, how did it act and appear during the speaking of Mr. Spies?

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A At the time Mr. Spies was showing them how the officers came down the black road, and commenced shooting into the crowd of workingmen, and shooting them down, because they were out there, they appeared very much excited in the neighborhood of the wagon and in the neighborhood where they hallooed out: "Let us hang them".

Q Go on now with Parsons' speech?

A. Parsons got up and said as he had a terrible cold that he would keep his hat on during his speech. He started his speech by taking from some book on labor statistics, and he says, "I suppose there is a great number of you that don't know anything about this book, because you haven't got the money to buy it, or you haven't got the leisure to read it, because you have got to work too much, to work too long, and you haven't got time to read when you get home---something to that effect. He said for every dollar that us laboring men make for capitalists, we receive fifteen cents, or something like that sum, and he says "We are on a still hunt for the eighty five cents". He went on to say how he had been down through the coal mines and addressed the coal miners down there, and from the labor statistics they had received twenty four and a half cents for their daily labor---that is about what they average during the year. And he says "That is just half as much as the Chinamen would get" and he says "If we keep on, we will be a great deal worse than

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Chinamen." He then said: "I am a tenant, and I pay rent to a landlord." Somebody in the crowd then asked him: "What does the landlord do with it?" He says: "My friend, I am very glad you asked me that question. I will tell you. The landlord pays taxes, the taxes pay the sheriff, the police, the Pinkerton knights and the militia that are on duty out at the barracks who are ready to shoot you down when you are looking for your rights." He says: "I am a socialist from the top of my head to the soles of my feet, and I will express my sentiments if I die before morning." He said that very strongly and made a great commotion. That seemed to kind of catch the crowd in the neighborhood of the wagon again, and they let out a great cheer. There was a good many talking among themselves, but they were all Germans, I don't know whether German or not, but they were talking in a language that I could not understand. I went out to the outer edge of the crowd then Officer Myers called me out. The next remark I heard Mr. Parson say, taking off his hat in one hand, said he: "To arms, to arms, to arms." Three times distinctly. I went over to Desplaines Street station then and reported what I ahd seen and heard at the meeting to Inspector Bonfield.

Q Did you go back again?

A. Yes sir, I came back again.

Q Who was speaking?

A. Mr. Fielden was addressing the meeting.

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Q. How long did you hear Fielden speak, how long were you listening to him?

A. I just listened to Fielden's speech to hear him criticise Martin Foran, the congressman that was elected by the working people. I didn't pay much attention to that. He went on then to show what the law was, and he says: "Who is the law for, for the poor man or the capitalist?" He says: "It is for the capitalist. Yesterday when your brothers demanded their rights at McCormicks', did the law protect you?" He says: "No, it came out and shot you down. When Mr. McCormack closed his door against you for demanding your rights, did the law protect you?" He says: "No, if you love your wives, if you love your children, take the law, kill it, stab it, throttle it, or it will throttle you." That appeared to make the crowd more excited around in the neighborhood of the wagon, and I went over to the station again and made another report to Inspector Bonfield.

Q. Whom did you see on the wagon that night?

A. I saw Schwab on the wagon in the early part of the evening and a man named Schnaubelt.

Q. Did you see Spies on the wagon?

A. Spies, Parsons and Mr. Fielden.

Q. Do you know whether you saw any of the other defendants on the wagon?

A. I did not, no sir.

MR. GRINNELL: That is all.

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By Mr. Black.

Q. You, first of all, as I understand, went down on the haymarket?

A. Yes sir.

Q. You understood that the meeting was to be called for the haymarket or Haymarket Square?

A. Haymarket Square, that is what I understood.

Q. Haymarket Square is an open space occupying two blocks on Randolph, where the street is widened out, and the building line withdrawn?

A. So I understand.

Q. The meeting did not take place on Haymarket Square, did it?

A. No sir.

Q. Were you there when it was proposed that the meeting should be held around on Desplaines street?

A. Was I there at the time?

Q. Yes sir, at the time the proposition was made?

A. No sir, I did not hear any such proposition.

Q. How did you come to get around on Desplaines street?

A. I was attracted by the crowd going that way.

Q. You discovered in other words, that the crowd of people was gathering around on Desplaines street instead of on the Market Square?

A. Yes sir.

Q. You did not understand why, nor know how it came?

A. No sir, I did not.

Q. I understand you to say that you did hear somebody

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proposing to go upon Randolph street, and Mr. Spies thought that could not be done, it would interfere with the street car travel?

A. Yes sir.

Q. How many men do you think were at the meeting on Desplaines street at the time you reached the point of meeting?

A. In the neighborho d of about three hundred men.

Q. How large do you think the crowd was there at any one time while you were present?

A. I should not think it would have exceeded over eight or nine hundred.

Q. You got around to the crowd before any regular speaking commenced I understand?

A. Through the crowd, yes sir.

Q. I mean around on Desplaines street, you got around on Desplaines street before speaking commenced?

A. I did not get over to Desplaines street--when I got there Spies was just asking for Mr. Parsons. I guess that was the starting of it.

Q. Did you hear Spies, before any regular speaking commenced, asking the crowd to come to order and be quiet, or anything of that kind?

A. No sir, I did not.

Q. You testified before the Coroner's jury on the occasion of the inquest over Degan?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Did not you at that time say that you saw Spies on the wagon, and that the asked the crowd to be quiet, and said that Mr. Parsons and the other speakers would be there and address them?

A. I testified that Mr. Spies called on

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on Mr. Parsons, and he said: "Gentlemen, be quiet, Mr. Parsons will be here in a short time", and then somebody out of the crowd asked him to go and look for Parsons, and he said: "I will go myself." He got out of the wagon and started away.

Q. You say now you don't remember why Spies asked the crowd to be quiet?

A. No sir, I don't remember it.

Q. Did you so testify?

A. Not in that way you have got it there.

Q. If you did so testify at the coroner's inquest, saying in effect, "I saw Spies on the wagon, and he asked the crowd to be quiet, that Mr. Parsons and other speaker's would be there and address them"--if you so testified at that time, let me ask you if your memory then of the event was very much clearer than now, the details of the event?

A. Well, I should judge it was.

Mr. GRINNELL: Is that testimony taken at the coroner's inquest in shorthand?

Mr. BLACK: It is a report of it that we have.

Mr. GRINNELL: That is written out in longhand by the coroner.

Mr. BLACK: I have not the full transcript of it. So far as I know though, it is from shorthand writing, type-writing.

THE COURT: There is some misunderstanding between you and

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the witness as to what you are asking about.

Mr. BLACK; I tried to make myself plain. Now, if your Honor thinks you can help the witness out, I would be glad.

THE WITNESS: I understand what you mean.

THE COURT: He understands you are asking about calling the meeting to order when the speaking began.

Mr. BLACK: I asked him if before the speaking began he heard Spies say on the wagon, heard him ask the crowd to be quiet, and say that Mr. Parsons and other speakers would be presnent?

THE WITNESS: No, I did not. I did after he called for Parsons.

Q. After calling for Parsons, he said: "Be quiet",

A. He said: "Gentlemen be quiet: Mr. Parsons will be here in a short time."

Q. did he then get down off of the wagon himself and go away for any length of time?

A. He went away for five or three minutes.

Q. Did he say where he was going?

A. No sir, he did not say.

Q. Didn't he say he was going after Parsons, or would go after Parsons himself?

A. I thought that was what he was going for. He said: "I will go and find him myself", when he was getting down off of the wagon.

Q. That he would go and find him himself?

A. Yes sir.

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Q. Were you there when Spies commenced speaking--he was the first speaker?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Were you there when he commenced speaking?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Do you remember Spies saying in effect, in the opening of his speach, that the meeting was called for the purpose of discussing the general situation, and not for the purpose of raising a disturbance or a row?

A. I did not hear that at all.

Q. And yet you say you heard his speech?

A. I was coming from the outer edge of the crowd in towards the wagon, and Mr. Spies was up there when I got there.

Q. How near to the wagon were you at any time while Spies was speaking?

A. I got within about four feet of him.

Q. When Spies commenced, you were on the outer edge of the crowd?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Then you pressed your way through the crowd, and Spies was speaking in the meanwhile?

A. Yes sir.

Q. You don't know what he said in that interval?

A. No sir.

Q. He was under full headway in his speaking when you got within four feet of the wagon, as you have expressed?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Have you stated the substance of what you heard Spies

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say that night?

A. Now?

Q. Yes sir.

A. Yes sir.

Q. Will you state it again please, so that I can see just what your recollection of his speech is?

A. Yes--Mr. Spies--I took no notes, of course he said a good many things I paid no attentin to.

Q. You did take notes?

A. No sir, I did not take notes--it is my memory. He went on to cite how that he had been out to the meeting the day before at McCormick's on the prairie, that he went to speak there, and that they tried to pull him off the car because he was a socialist and they did not want him to talk; but he said: "I talked anyhow." During my speech some portion of the crowd started towards McCormick's and started throwing rocks at McCormick's works, and the scabs coming out"; and he said it was a most harmless amusement, the most harmless amusement they could have. He went on to tell how the officers came down in a wagon down the black road, and shot into them, shot down their fellow-brethren; and at that time somebody, a little bit south of the wagon hallooed out, "Let us hang them" meaning the officers as I supposed. Mr. Spies said: My friends, when you get ready to do anything, go and do it, but don't say anything about it." That is what I said Mr. Spies speech was, or as much as I could remember.

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Q. That expression of Spies in answer to that remark you have given as nearly as you can remember, have you?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Did not Mr. Spies at that time say in effect to the party about this: "No, it is not the time for any such action. Do not make any threats. You are not ready to act."

A. No sir.

Q. Did he use the expression "threats" at all?

A. I did not hear him.

Q. Did he say in effect at that time: "When that time comes you will no longer make idle threats?

A. I did not hear him say that.

Q. The only expression that you can remember is the one that you have already detailed on the stand?

A. Yes sir.

Q. That expression you are quite positive of?

A. Yes sir.

Q. How long have you been in the detective service?

A. I have been on the police force four years. I have been at the central headquarters acting as detective four months; before that a year and a half at twenty-second street.

Q. You are still in the dective service?

A. Yes sir.

Q. You say that you saw Schwab there that night?

A. Yes sir, in the early portion of the evening.

Q. At what hour do you think you lost sight of him finally?

A. Somewheres in the vicinity of half past eight o'clock.

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Q. After that you did not see him at all during the entire meeting?

A. No sir.

Q. Where was Schwab when you saw him last?

A. The last I saw Schwab he was talking to Mr. Parsons at the side of the wagon.

Q. Had you Seen Schwab on the wagon at any time?

A. he got on the wagon I think before the meeting started, and tapped Mr. Spies on the shoulder and said something to him.

Q. Then Spies called the meeting to order?

A. No, then Spies got down off of the wagon and started away to find Parsons.

Q. Did Schwab remain there during Spies' address?

A. He went away, I lost him through the crowd, but saw him away from me again--I thought it was Schwab from the outline.

Q. Was that the last you saw of Schwab?

A. No sir, I saw him again after that.

Q. When and where did you see him after that that night?

A. At the side of the wagon talking to Spies.

Q. When was that with reference to Spies' speech, was it before he commenced speaking?

A. It was after he made his speech. Mr. Spies only spoke a few minutes.

Q. How long, according to your best recollection, did spies speak there that night?

A. I should judge between fifteen and twenty minutes--I don't think any longer.

Q. You saw Schwab and Spies talking at the side of the

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wagon, and then Schwab disappeared finally?

A. Yes sir.

Q. And you did not see him any more that night?

A. No sir.

Q. That was after Spies had finished his speech according to your recollection?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Are you positive of that?

A. To the best of my recollection it was, I think.

Q. Is your recollection as clear up on that subject as it is upon the other matters to which you have testified as taking place that night?

A. I should judge so, yes sir.

Q. Can you tell me what time it was, or about what time it was that meeting was called to order?

A. About ten minutes after eight, I think.

Q. The speaking commenced soon after that?

A. Right immediately after that. You mean when the meeting was called to order?

Q. When Spies commenced speaking?

A. Between eight and ten minutes after eight.

Q. Did any speaking take place there the interval Spies was away, when as you understand he was gone to hunt Parsons up--did anybody speak in that interval?

A. I don't believe they did.. I walked over to Randolph and Desplaines street, and stood there a few minutes, and went right back and Spies was on the wagon.

Q. You did not hear anybody speak in that interval?

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A. No sir.

Q. So far as you know the speaking of the evening was uopened up by Spies?

A. Yes sir.

Q. He was the first speaker?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Now, Parsons said the workingman was on the still hunt for eighty-five cents?

A. Not the workingman. He said: "We are on the still hunt for the other eighty-five cents."

Q. Having spoken in the first instance of that fact as shown by the statistics that he had at hand, that the workingman got fifteen cents out of every dollar that they earned?

A. That is what he was talking about.

Q. Then as I understand you he took up the theme of the coal-miners' difficulties in Ohio?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Did he speak of the fact that he had been down the

A. Yes sir.

Q. What did he say as to where he had been and when?

He did not say. He said he had been down through the coal country addressing the coal miners, and that they got on an average for their work, or earned or received twenty four and a half cents a day.

Q. Did he say when he had been down there?

A. No sir.

Q. Did he say when he returned?

A. No sir.

Q. Did he say he had just got back?

A. Not to my recollection.

Q. You didn't hear him say that?

A. No sir.

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Q. Didn't he say in the course of his speech that he had been down to Cincinnati and had on the Sunday previous addressed a meeting in Cincinnati, and had returned to Chicago only that morning?

A. I did not hear him state that.

Q. That Tuesday morning--you did not hear him state that?

A. No sir.

Q. Did you hear him say that at any time during his speech?

A. No sir.

Q. You only remember that he said he had been down among the coal miners, and found that they were making on an average about twenty-four and a half cents a day for the year?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Then he referred to the Chinese?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Did you hear him make any reference to the southwestern strikes and Jay Gould?

A. No sir.

Q. Were you there during the whole time that Parsons was speaking?

A. No sir, I was meandering around through the crowd.

Q. Were you in the crowd during the whole time Parsons was speaking?

A. Yes sir, I was in the crowd, but I would only get my attention fully attracted when he would get in something and throw his voice up very high, seem to become eloquent.

Q. You got you say while Spies was speaking I understood

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within about four feet of the wagon?

A. Yes sir. stood in front of it.

Q. Did you remain there until Spies concluded and introduced Parsons?

A. No sir, I think I went out in the outer verge during the time Mr. Spies introduced Mr. Parsons, and turned right around again turned around to talk to my partner with me.

Q. You had an associate with you that night?

A. Yes sir.

Q. You were going into the crowd and coming out and communicating with one another, and going back to the station there during the evening?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Did you ever get up on the northern edge od the crowd, the edge up towards Lake street?

A. No sir, I did not.

Q. You kept then along around the wagon, and between the wagon and the station?

A. Yes sir.

Q. And upon the border of that part of the crowd to the South and West?

A. The south and west and south and east. I stood down by those boxes quite a while during Parson's speech.

Q. Which boxes do you refer to?

A. Those fish boxes on the east side of the street.

Q. The east sidewalk south of the alley and south of the lamp post?

A. Yes sir.

Q. How much of a crowd was there there upon that sidewalk? in that locality?

A. Well there was more or less during the evening. But there was at one time,

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during Parsons' speech, I should judge about fifty people when I left there.

Q On the sidewalk?

A. Right in that place there, sitting on the boxes, and all through. I did not go back there any more.

Q. You did not go back to that place?

A. No sir.

Q. The crowd immediately about the wagon, I understand you to say, was demonstrative in the expression of approval of the sentiments of the speakers?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Was that characteristic of the crowd all the evening there?

A. The more so there than any other place. On the outer edge of the crowd there was a good mony boys.

Q. There was a joly crowd on the outer edges?

A. Yes sir, people going away and coming in that vicinity of the wagon all the evening.

Q. No fights or disturbances there that evening that you saw?

A. Not a thing.

Q. You have of course been in a great many open air street night meetings in Chicago before?

A. I don't believe I ever attended one before.

Q. This is your first experience?

A. Yes sir.

Q. A man that has been in the detective service as long as you have?

A. I have not been there very long.

Q. How much of Parson's speech do you think you heard alltogether, say by minutes?

A. Well I should have said he

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talked for quite a length of time. I guess between three quarters of an hour and an hour.

Q. How much time did you hear him?

A. I heard him twenty or twenty-five minutes.

Q. Was that consecutively or in broken doses?

A. In broken doses--something between.

Q. When you were in the outer edge you would not hear, and when you came back you heard?

A. Yes sir.

Q. A part of the time listening to him, and a part of the time talking to friends?

A. Watching the people in the crowd.

Q. Also talking with your companions there on duty?

A. Yes sir, we would exchange a word once in a while.

Q. Now, I suppose that since that time, you have talked over those occurrences quite frequently with the officers on duty with you that night?

A. No sir, I did not, not very often. I wrote down my testimony the next day, and after the haymarket meeting kept it in my drawer.

Q. Kept it ever since?

A. Yes sir.

Q. How often have you read that narrative over?

A. I guess about twice since then.

Q. When was the last time you read it?

A. I read a portion of it this morning.

Q. You primed yourself for your present performance?

Objected to. Objection sustained, and exception.

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Q. You read the notes over this morning with a view of your testifying here to-day, did you?

A. To refresh my memory, yes sir.

Q. And in the expectation that you would be called as a witness to-day. You have been notified?

A. I was here yesterday.

Q. You were notified that you would be called to testify this morning?

No sir.

Q. When did you first learn that you would be put on the stand this morning?

A. When I was called from behind the desk.

Q. Have you been in attendance quite regularly?

A. More or less.

Q. How did you happen to look over your notes this morning?

A. I knew it was on a portion of the case where I was to figure, and when it was to be in shape.

Q. You understood the State's case, as the State had arranged it?

A. No sir, I understood it from the standpoint I looked at it.

Q. Do I understand you to say that you have never talked over the occurrences of that evening with your associate officer?

A. Yes we have.

Q. How often have you talked it over with him?

A. Probably half a dozen times. May be a dozen--that is, not talked over the evidence, but talked over it generally.

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Q. I dont mean to say that you sat down and said, "I am going to swear to this, and what are you going to swear to?" I mean talked over the occurrences, went over the history?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Did you hear any of Fielden's talk?

A. Yes sir.

Q How much of his talk did you hear?

A. Very little.

Q. How many minutes do you think?

A. About five.

Q. That was the portion that immediately preceded the explosion of the bomb, was it?

A. No sir.

Q. What portion of his talk did you hear?

A. Where he was talking about the law, telling people to stab it, throttle it or it would throttle them-- that is, meaning his hearers I suppose.

Q. In other words you heard Fielden discussing the subject of legislation as affecting the working or industrial classes?

A. Yes sir, he was criticising Michael Foran.

Q. He spoke specially, in so far as you heard, of something that he said had recently been stated by Foran in reference to legislation?

A. I did not pay much attention to his talk. What I paid attention to was, when he got talking about the law, and the difference between the law for the poor man, the workingman and the rich man--there was no law for the poor man.

Q. You heard him mention Foran's name?

A. Yes sir.

Q. You heard him mention the fact that Foran had stated

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in effect that they could not get any legislation through Congress in favor of the working classes?

A. I did not pay any particular attention to that part, no sir.

Q. You simply mention that Foran's name was mentioned in a general way, and then that Fielden got to talking about the law, and he took the position that the law was made for the rich, and not for the poor?

A. I went over and got a cigar during the interval there, and when I came back Mr. Fielden was talking about the law, and I went to Desplaines street station and reported, then I did not go back to the speakers' stand any more.

Q. Your recollection of his position was that the law was made for the rich and not for the poor, wasn't it?

A. I don't know. I should surmise that from the way he was talking.

Q. And its enactments were in the interest of property and not in the interests of the working man?

A. I don't know anything about that.%

Q. You said that he asked as to whether the law was their friend, as to whether it would open the doors to them, or support them in their struggles, and he said it would not?

A. No sir, I did not understand that at all. What I understood about the law he said, he showed the law, the difference in it between the poor and rich.

Q. What did he say on that subject?

A. He said the law

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did not protect you when you demanded of Mr. McCormick your rights but he said:, "When you went there and demanded your rights of Mr. McCormick, what did the law do? In the shape of the minions of the law, it clubbed you and shot you down." He said: "Working men, if you love your wives, if you love your children, if you love your homes, take the law, kill it, stab it, throttle it, or it will throttle you." After that I went to Desplaines street station and reported to Inspector Bonfield.

Q. Can you tell me just where you stood when the bomb exploded?

A. I stood about fifteen feet north of the north-west corner of Desplaines and Randolph street.

Q. When you speak of the corner of the street, I suppose you mean the outer corner of the sidewalk?

A. Ye sir.

Q. You stood about fifteen feet north of the corner?

A. Of that north side of Randolph street, on the west side of Desplaines.

Q. Then you stood on the sidewalk on Desplaines street, nearly opposite the building line, didn't you, nearly opposite the front of those buildings on Haymarket?

A. I don't answer that question. Show it to me on the map.

Q. Here is the northwest corner and there is the brick building on that corner (pointing on the map)?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Here is the sidewalk, extending out something over

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sixteen feet wide--you say you stood about fifteen feet north?

A. About fifteen feet from the corner of the building on the west side of the sidewalk, near the center of the sidewalk.

Q. Near the center of the sidewalk about fifteen feet north?

A. North of the corner of the building, near the stairs.

Q. How near were you to the foot of the stairs?

A. The foot of the stairs go right up the corner.

Q. From that position I understand you saw the explosion of the bomb?

A. I did not see it. I heard it.

Q. You could only locate it if at all by the sound, and not by sight?

A. Yes sir.

Q. To secure your own safety, where did you go?

A. I got in a door way.

Q. On which side of the building?

A. Not in that building at all. As soon as the bomb exploded, Officers Myers and myself were together, and Myers says: "My God, what is that?" I says: "That is a bomb, we better get out of here", and I got hold of him, and we started towards Desplaines street station, and then there was a car come across at the time, and we got on the other side of the car, and went over on the other side of the street.

Q. You never stopped until you sot on the other side of haymarket?

A. No sir--it did not do me any good I guess.

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